Shame on Noah!
This article may be offensive to some because it dares to break the boundary of traditional Christian letter teaching (literal interpretations). It also exposes Noah doing something far more serious than imbibing too many wine coolers in his tent and dancing around in his birthday suit.
Before we begin, let’s be reminded of what Paul writes in 1 Cor. 10 about the things that happened to our forefathers.
1 Co 10:11-12 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
The stories of old that we read in the scriptures are written for our benefit and admonition to help bring us to maturity… “till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ (Eph_4:13).” In other words, they are written as examples (moral and spiritual lessons, even warnings)… not as mere history lessons or to establish doctrinal beliefs. The Bible is a witness to LIFE, the Christ, the Son of God that resides in you, and it is He that teaches you all things.
1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
In other words, Life itself is your teacher, and that Life, the Word, Christ who Lights every man who comes into the world (Jn 1:4-9), is not in the scriptures. Christ is the Light, the Word from the beginning, and He is IN YOU. He is your life and the hope of glory… which is a mystery to most. Col 1:27 “To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”
And so it is that the scriptures are the testimony of your life, which is Christ, even Christ in you, as you. That is why we call them the Old Testament (testimony) and the New Testament (testimony). It’s all about the first man Adam (your carnal self, ego, antichrist) and the second man Adam (the one from above who you really are), the first and the last, if you can “see” it.
John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Therefore to hold up the Bible and say this is the Word of God is very misleading and causes many to look for Christ without, instead of within. The kingdom of God is WITHIN you, in the invisible inner space (realm), not in the visible outer space (realm).
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
If you can “see” that the Bible is all about the unseen kingdom (realm) of God, the spiritual things that cannot be seen with flesh eyes, then you should have no trouble at all understanding that by default scripture must be allegory and thus filled parables and metaphors… and it is. Did not Jesus speak in parables, which are allegories? Mat 13:13 “Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.”
Stories paint images, pictures of scenes that our carnal minds see happening in the physical realm without. However, those things are but manifestations and shadows of the invisible (spiritual) realm within.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Besides, the things we see in the physical realm are temporal (temporary) anyway, so concentrate on the mystery, the spiritual and moral significance of the stories, instead of the history.
2 Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Now let’s look at the unseen things that happened in Genesis chapter nine, beginning in verse 18 where Noah began to be a husbandman and planted a vineyard.
Gen 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
Sons are also allegorical (unseen things, natures) of that which is produced by the male (spirit) and female (soul, or flesh). Notice that Ham (meaning hot) is emphasized as the father of Canaan (lowlands), representing carnality. Shem (nature, character, authority) will later be emphasized as the father of all the children of Eber (Heber, Hebrew, meaning the land beyond, Israel, the heart). Japheth means open or expansive in a mental or moral sense.
Now as I see it allegorically, and you are free to disagree, we all come forth from the Ark, the place of rest, and the earth (our minds) are open and expansive before us and need to be filled. That is why in the opening verse of Genesis 9 God says this:
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
Our carnal thinking minds, fueled by traditional Bible teaching, would have us believe that God is simply telling Noah and his sons to go have sex and multiply like bunny rabbits and refill the earth with people. My guess is that they would have instinctively gone and had sex and reproduced on their own anyway, if you know what I mean… probably even against a direct command from God not to do so.
Yeah, I can see it now. “And God said, do not touch the naked woman who is in the midst of the garden, lest ye die! And the man looked upon the woman and saw that she was beautiful, one to be desired. Then the man said in his heart, I’ll take my chances and if I die… what a way to go!”
No, the “fruit” God wants us to multiply (increase in) and replenish (fill, refill, as in renew daily) the expansive earth (our minds) with is the fruit of the spirit, which is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc.
Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
There is no law anywhere telling you not to be filled with love, which is sanctioned by God, for God is love. So the more you are filled with love, the more you are filled with Him… He in you and you in Him.
Gen 9:2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
This verse explains that if you increase the fruit of the Spirit in your life, that resulting power and wisdom of God (Christ in you, 1 Cor 1:24) will become dominant upon (over) every aspect of your life… over the beasts of the earth (your animal characteristics), the fowl of the air (thoughts in your mind), all that moves upon the earth and upon all the fishes of the sea (your feelings and your emotions).
So verse one of Gen 9 (and Gen 1:28) is how you come to have dominion over all the earth (your mind and body).
Back to Genesis 9, verse 19.
Gen 9:19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread. (dashed to pieces, scattered).
Now here is where it gets interesting.
Gen 9:20 And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
Check out the word “began” in any Hebrew dictionary or lexicon. You will find it means to profane, defile, pollute, desecrate (BDB). Strong’s has it: a primitive root (compare H2470); properly to bore, that is, (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening-wedge); denominatively (from H2485) to play (the flute):
What I see here is that Noah began to be his own husbandman. He spiritually profaned and brought shame upon himself by planting his own “vineyard” and drinking the wine thereof. In other words, he began to toot his own flute. He broke one’s (God’s) word and thus began an “opening-wedge” that would ever widen.
You see, Jesus said in John 15:1, “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.”
God already told us what fruit we should consume, the fruit of the spirit from His vineyard, which is love, peace, joy, longsuffering, etc.
The point is is that Christ (not our carnal minds) is the true Vine (from which we are to drink) and the Father (not us) is the husbandman, the producer of the fruitful vineyard. So instead of enjoying the “rest” God had given him, Noah became religious (his own husbandman). He got drunk from the wine he carnally produced… causing him to become “naked” (shamed) in his own tent (tabernacle)… i.e. within himself.
Babylon (confusion, the opposite of rest) would soon follow in chapter 11… with the establishment of a city (congregation) and a tower (pulpit) whose top (chief, head man) may reach unto heaven. And so it is this very day that the land is full of pulpits with leaders who spew forth Babel to their congregations. Therefore the nations are mad indeed.
Jer 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD’S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
I don’t think many people would disagree that this verse is not talking about the whole earth getting literally drunk on wine. It’s the confusion, the madness, that comes from the selfish carnal religious thinking of man. Yet everyone sees Noah’s drinking of wine and his drunkenness as literal.
Gen 9:21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
Is it so hard to see that Noah drank the wine from his own vineyard (his carnal mind) and he became drunken (spiritually stupefied) with it?
If all you see is that Noah “tied one on” from too much Cabernet Sauvignon and took his clothes off, then you are as I once was, a low information Bible reader. The solution is to elevate our thinking from that which is seen to that which is unseen (2 Cor 4:18). In the King’s James language it would read something like this: Go ye therefore up into the mountain (elevate your thinking) and meditate (pray), asking the Father for understanding (wisdom). In fact, James tells us to do just that: “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him (James 1:5).”
By the way, a few verses from now we are going to see Noah “awaken” from his stupor, from his sleep, i.e. from sleeping on his sanctioned job of producing the fruit from God’s vineyard, not his own! Again, Noah got drunk alright (as so many of us have), and “fell asleep” in his stupor (as so many of us have). But it wasn’t from the spirits in the bottle, it was from the spirits (thinking) of his carnal mind, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Isa 29:9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
In Gen 9:4 God said not to eat (drink, consume) man’s wine (blood). Again, man’s wine comes from his own vineyard, his carnal mind. Paul also emphasizes not to get drunk with wine (man’s religion) but be filled (fill the earth, replenish your mind) with the Spirit.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Now what does it mean that Noah became “uncovered” in his “tent”? It means the shame of his nakedness, his carnal religious thinking, appeared (manifested itself).
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire (fruit that is spiritually tested and approved of God), that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed (in His righteousness, in His right thinking), and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Noah started producing bad fruit from his own carnal vineyard. More to the point… Noah became religious! Shame on him. Shame on us all who follow men in pulpits.
Gen 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
What does it mean that Ham, the father of lowlands (carnal thinking), “saw” the nakedness of his father? Or shall we ask, “How did he perceive or “see” the “fruit” that produced his father’s nakedness? He saw it the same way Eve saw the fruit from “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”, the carnal mind. He regarded (saw) it as fruit to be desired and to make one wise.
So what did he do once he saw (perceived) Noah’s new religion?
He went out and started to proclaim it to his brethren., Shem and Japheth.
But they didn’t buy it!
Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
This verse has produced many various wild and crazy interpretations from the lowlands, almost all of which have to do with sexual acts ranging from masturbation to homosexuality to incest with Noah’s wife.
Now I confess that I had not visited these verses for many years until this topic arose on three separate occasions recently, followed by a beautiful rainbow. Well what a difference “a day” makes. I also do not claim that what I see happening here in Gen 9 is totally correct. I have been wrong before. Even so, this is what I have been given to see at the present time and felt led to share it with those who have struggled with this section of scripture. I have no other agenda. I am not trying to teach some new doctrine to itching ears or build a city. Nor do I have a donate button on this website.
I do however speak as one who was once literally and frequently drunk on wine (actually mostly beer) and became an alcoholic. Then by the Grace of God, thirty two years ago as of this writing, I was given rest from that burden and addiction, only to become drunk on the wine of religion, produced from man’s carnal vineyards… in the lowlands of the mind. I studied Hebrew and Greek and Chaldean for years, even from my youth on up, and became a Biblical scholar.
Then I began to teach the Bible and overspread my doctrines throughout the land. I built a city (congregation) from the pulpit (tower) and said to myself, “I am rich in wisdom and understanding and have it all figured out.”
And behold, many did “look upon my nakedness” and told their brethren without and the city of confusion (Babylon), known as The Kings Chapel, was built.
Then by the Grace of God, He awakened me from my stupor and I “saw” how spiritually wretched, and woe-is-me miserable, and poor in wisdom, and blind to understanding I really was. I was truly unclothed with the glory of God because of the shame (carnal thinking) of my nakedness.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Yea, cursed be the lowlands.
When I went back and reread the scriptures in Gen 9, I was reminded of what I used to believe and teach others concerning their meaning. Here it is:
“Noah imbibed an excess of wine (alcohol), got drunk in his tent, and passed out in a stupor. Then Ham, his son, entered in and took advantage of Noah’s wife, his own mother, which resulted in her becoming pregnant with Canaan. I taught that the phrase “to look upon your father’s nakedness” was a figure of speech that means to have sex with his wife.
Then Ham came out of the tent and told his brothers what he had done. However, instead of also “looking upon their father’s nakedness”, Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it upon both their shoulders, and went in backwards (so as to not see their mother naked?) and covered her. When Noah awoke from his wine, he discovered what had happened and cursed Canaan.” You’d think he would have cursed Ham instead.
Pretty incredible story, wouldn’t you say? Yet that is what I truly believed and taught because a man in a pulpit, who I revered and followed as a Biblical scholar, told me that was the interpretation thereof and I “saw” it.
When you think about it, what lesson would we learn from what I once taught? “When your dad gets drunk, do not go have sex with your mom.” Really now? Why not just wait ‘till your dad goes out for the day to prune the vines in the upper forty acres?
Let that be lesson number one for anyone reading this article or anyone else’s writings. Be especially cautious if they claim to have credentials bestowed upon them by churches or so-called institutions of higher learning or by themselves.
By the way, here’s something else that happened recently (one of the several I spoke of earlier). A dear friend of mine told me that his eighteen year old son, who has become a very serious Bible student, told him he believed it is a sin to see your father in the buff, which is how he interprets “to look upon your father’s nakedness”. Never thought of that one.
However, that would present several problems, especially if you play, let’s say, basketball or volley ball in the gym together with your father and later take showers in the locker room. Or worse yet, when your father gets old and has dementia and needs to have his Depends changed, you’ll have to get someone else to do it, otherwise you’ll sin. I guess it’s not a problem for the father to see his young son naked when he changes his diapers.
Here’s the point. When you teach religion to others, instead of being filled with the Spirit that covers your nakedness and shows forth the glory of God, you make them “drunk on that wine” and cause them to also become naked (uncovered in their tent).
Hab 2:14 For the earth (your mind) shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Hab 2:15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!
Hab 2:16 Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD’S right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.
So what did Shem and Japheth do?
Gen 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
Shem and Japheth “took a garment”, which is a “mantle”, and took the burden upon their shoulders to go back and continue, or pick up, where the once “preacher of righteousness (2 Pet 2:5)” left off! As we would say, they turned their back on Noah’s religion and disregarded (saw not) what he had done.
The proof of pudding, so to speak, can be found in the genealogies of Genesis chapter 10, which are not written just to fill space and bore us.
Here are the sons (natures, characteristics) produced by Canaan (lowlands), the son of Ham (whose name means “hot”, as in a hot preacher). The definitions of their names (natures) are taken from BDB (Brown, Driver, and Briggs) Hebrew and English lexicon.
Sidon = Hunting
Heth = Terror
Jebusite = Threshing
Amorite = a Sayer
Girgasite = Dwelling on a clayey soil
Hivite = Villagers
Arkite = Gnawing
Sinite = Thorn or Clay
Arvadite = I shall break loose
Zemarite = Double woolens
Hamathite = Fortress
That’s what religion, which comes from the lowlands, produces! Ham (the “hot” preacher) would also bring forth Cush (black, as in darkness, which is what carnal mindedness is) and Cush would beget Nimrod, whose name (nature) means “rebellion” or “the valiant”.
Gen 10:10 And the beginning of his (Nimrod’s) kingdom was Babel (confusion), and Erech (long, a city 40 miles northwest of Ur toward Babylon on the left bank of the Euphrates river), and Accad (subtle), and Calneh (fortress of Anu), in the land of Shinar (land of two rivers).
Now here are the “sons” produced by Shem (nature), the father of Eber.
Eber = The region beyond (Hebrew, representing Israel, the heart of God)
Elam = Eternity
Asshur = A Step
Arphaxad = “I shall fail as the breast: he cursed the breast-bottle”
Lud = Strife
Aram = Exalted
Japheth is the “expansion” between the two. His sons are:
Gomer = Complete
Magog = Land of Gog (mountain)
Madai = Middle Land
Javan = Ionia or Greece (probably from the same as yayin, wine)
Tubal = Thou shall be brought
Meshech = Drawing out
Tiras = Desire
Pretty eye opening, wouldn’t you say?
Noah didn’t see it until one day he awoke from “his wine”, as in had a spiritual awakening.
Gen 9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Noah awoke from drinking his own wine and knew (ascertained by seeing) what his younger son had done unto him, which was to take his religion and overspread the land. (There for but the Grace of God go I.) This is how it began and begins and Babylon (spiritual confusion, religion) with her sister cities (churches, temples, congregations) with towers (pulpits) would soon fill the land.
By the way, Noah lived 950 years, which is a Jubilee (50 years) shy of a Millennium (1000 years). Just thought I’d throw that in.
So what do we take away from what happened in Genesis chapter 9? As we learned at the beginning of this writing, this story of old is an “ensample”, written as an admonishment for all of us (1 Cor 10:11). “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall (1 Cor 10:12).
By now you should know what wine and vineyards and Babylon, etc. are allegorical ensamples of. So if you are part of the system of churchianity; if you are drunk on religious doctrine, the letter of the law, and/or rituals such as tithing and going to church every week to show yourself a good Christian and to drink the “cup of wine” from a man in a pulpit, then perhaps this lesson will serve as wake up call to help you see the truth, which is to have a revelation.
Rev 18:2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (All these can be seen in Canaan’s sons.)
I know it’s hard for some people to view their church in such a light. Denial is always present with an addiction. This I know to be true as one who has been subject, subservient, to both the King of Beers (the spirits from the bottle) and the King of Babylon (the spirits from the pulpit).
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Think of these nations and powers as being within us (our carnal thinking) allowing us to believe we are “rich and have need of nothing”.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Again, heaven, the Kingdom of God, is within you (Luke 17:21). The “voice” (would you believe the Greek word is “phone”?) calls from within, from your heart of hearts. Will you answer it when it rings?
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Cursed be Canaan, the lowlands of religious double mindedness!
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
So pick up the mantle, turn your back on religious doctrines and church rituals and pulpiteers, and go back to rest. Be fruitful (from your Father’s vineyard), and multiply (increase in love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance), and replenish the earth (with the knowledge of His glory).
Ring, ring!
Just the dose I needed today.
Thanks
Thank you Lance. It was a long time coming, but well worth the wait. I must read it again many times to totally consume it’s value. There is so much in this article to spiritually understand but thanks to you, my heart has been receiving spiritual understanding for awhile now. Thank you Lance!
EXCELLENT STUDY Lance. I absolutely agree.thank you for sharing this.
Such articles as you share with all are very revealing. The most revealing for myself is they open your spirit to share what our Creator would have all mankind understand. After only one reading, wisdom is the key word for me in this publication. Every day I ask for wisdom, not just for me, but for all those seeking His guidance. To me, it is the most personal contact that He gives to all who seek love and forgiveness. Again, thank you for the effort to share what you receive.
just red it again and tho I know there is some really cool reviling stuff in there my mind can’t but help to wonder as to why the the book seems to speak more so to the carnal part of us?, as in if Noah’s vineyard was really about Noah’s religion why then don’t it just say so in a way the carnal mind will not find it so tasty. why didn’t it just day Noah got turned on to self teachings and left GODS ?
Blaine, that’s a very good question.
My first thought is that it wouldn’t make any difference anyway, because it isn’t about what Noah did. Quite frankly, because it is allegory, it makes no difference if there really was a man named Noah. For example, Jesus often began talking about the kingdom of heaven as being like unto this or that.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Do you think there really was a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls? Does it matter? It’s not about the merchant man. It’s about you. You are the merchant man! You are Noah! It’s about the spiritual realm, the kingdom of God, which is within you! (Luke 17:21). It’s about wisdom and understanding.
What if Jesus told this story: The kingdom of heaven is like unto a man who became his own husbandman and went off and planted his own vineyard and drank the wine thereof, etc.?
Again, it’s about wisdom, about understanding the things that are unseen, especially Christ within (1 Cor 1:27).
The point is, people would still only view “Noah got turned on to self teachings and left GODS” as history and not see that the story is really a parable about the spiritual realm, the kingdom of heaven within.
I don’t mind saying Lance that I have been chewing the cud over this one half the night .tho I get what you are saying about maybe Noah being allegory like the guy Christ used in (the merchant man) I can’t but help feel Noah can not be the same as he was mentioned by Name and is a Part of the the very Genealogy that Leads to our Fathers Savior .the fear being if we wright off Noah being a real dude what would stop us from doing the same thing to our Fathers Savior later down the trail.I also here you on the SPIRIT being out Teacher and not the tree of Good (and ) evil which we become at the pulpit as that makes a lot of sense ,as to my original question of why would the Book lean towards the Carnal way of thinking ,after much thinking of late I wonder if Man or the powers that be of the time could have Tampered with the Scriptures to throw us off Jacobs Ladder so to speak.any thoughts on that possibility ?
I am glad to hear the article provoked some thought, which was its intended purpose.
Blaine, my point was that the story and life of Noah is allegory for those who see it, whether it’s real history or not… though I happen to believe it is. And to your point about Jesus, you are closer to the revelation than you know. Consider these few verses for openers:
Rom 8:29 says that Jesus was the firstborn among many brethren. In other words, He was the pattern which we (his brothers and sisters) follow.
1 Jn 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
The truth that sets you free, which is the revelation of Jesus Christ, is to come to know that you are not your worldly self, your ego, your ID, the person you have grown up believing you are… but rather the son of God dwelling in the flesh. The real you is not of this world, even as Jesus was not of this world (Jn 17:14). That is blasphemy to most Christians who worship a man who lived 2000 years ago.
1Jn_3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn_3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
We shall see him as he is… which is just like us, us just like him, a son of God.
There’s more to chew on in the article “The Manifestation of the Sons of God”.
Love ya brother.
Lance, I have a few words I will say to you now.
back in the day when I studied with Pasture Murry
I came across one of your web sights while doing a search for Sheppard’s chapel stuff,
then the split came,
everybody on the discussions boards thought you went off the deep end.
I heard somewhere you said PM was an anty Christ of some kind or something to that effect .
I remember being very afraid inside wile I laughed on the out side,
very shaken I was.
we all ridiculed you at times ,
I guess mostly out of fear for what might be down our own road.
I have heard Carnal this and carnal that till I was sick of the talk of it. I did not get it
I remember hearing you shut down the church you where involved in and worked so hard to be a part of .
there was only more ridicule for that.again through the fear of where we might be heading ,as we where all seekers of the truth .
we acted like we new better and you where off your rocker .
but I still felt drawn to your experiences. afraid of it, but draw to it .
now my own life thoughts have turned on me .and what I thought I new I now know I did not.
today as I read some of what our Father of Spirits have shared with you I felt a shame and a weakness come over me,
I thought of how hard your revelations to the Truth must have been on you and your Family
I thought of how hard it must have been on some of the friendships of them that believed in the church you guys where building in the stride to the Truth only to see it left in the dust.
and then I thought how I am now being Helped by simply reading some of what our Father has shared with you .
and I feel a great need to say
I am sorry.
in a way I and many others was your Saul of Torus .persecuting and taring you down by pretending to know better .
wondering now if a Paul will rise from the dust of it all on the trail.
when I was a young man out on the spillway I liked to all ways sit up front on the nose of the boat so I could see if a sinker ( a submerged log or tree) was coming up so I could give a heads up to the driver and pull the throttle back.
its a job that can save life’s.
you my friend where on the nose of the boat for a lot of people
and now that I have told you I was sorry, I will tell you
Thank you , and THANK FATHER for you
I just read your reply again.I am still chewing the cud.and things are still coming .
Thanks for this e-mail, Lance. It was timely for me and every piece of your work(ie on One Liberty Place) gives me a deeper
understanding of the “within”. Thanks again.
Lance,
How do you explain YOUR theory with relation to Lev 18:8; 20:11?
Seems to me that relation is fairly simply laid out when referencing Leviticus. While your search for greater understanding is noble, remember that the Word is and always should be read and understood in the simplicity in which it was written. God is not the author of confusion.
Greg,
Thanks for reading the article and expressing your thoughts. Like I said in the article, you are free to disagree and not see things as I do. Unity of the faith does not require unified doctrine. In fact, unconditional love does not require doctrine at all.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
As far as the relation of Gen 9 to Lev 18:8 and 20:11, I don’t see any. The subjects and context are entirely different. It is not written that Ham “uncovered” his father’s nakedness or uncovered his mother’s nakedness in the sense of Lev 18. The only uncovering that was done in Gen 9 was by Noah, at that was to himself. Again, he profaned himself because of his “drunkenness” on the wine from his own vineyard.
In Gen 9, Ham “saw” (not uncovered) his father’s nakedness. At that point, Noah was already uncovered (by the glory of God). In contrast, Shem and Japheth “saw not”.
The point is, doctrine hardens (covers, contains in old wine skins) the heart and prevents us from hearing what the spirit has to say.
Thanks again for your comments.
Lance
Lance,
I appreciate the opportunity to be given to think about my beliefs and evaluate all scripture with the help of the Holy Spirit. Your writings definitely are thought provoking and cause me to re-evaluate what I have learned; and in that strengthen what I believe.
In reference to the underlying theme in most of your writings, yes, we really should not take any man at his word and always question anything coming from someone’s mouth. Parable of the sower discusses this (not that I have to tell you). As long as the fruit is inspected (evaluated for the truth there-in) there is nothing wrong with partaking. In that, it strengthens us and our relationship with Father, as we are actively seeking Him in His Word.
Back on to the topic of Ham… Gen 9:18, and 9:22; they both mention the Ham is the father of Caanan. As is all things in the Word, they are there for a reason and are to be evaluated in context. Verse 18 speaks of the sons of Noah being Shem, Ham, and Japheth. With that pesky “Ham is the father of Caanan” at the end when listing Noah’s sons, why would it be important there for that statement to be made? Subsequently in verse 22, where the transgression in question occurs, that same thing happens again. Why? If we are analyzing the differences of “see” versus “uncovering” let’s take the Word in context and let it speak to us. Why, in His infinite wisdom, would that statement be present in both areas? My contention is that it is to divide the actual sons of Noah, birthed of he and his wife, and that of a son of his wife and his son Ham.
Thank you, Greg. Provoking thought, especially higher thought, is the very intent of what I write, not to convince you or anyone else to see things as I do.
The “underlying theme in most of my writings” is that these things have happened to us, or are happening to us today. Again, they are witnesses and testimonies of the things that personally happen in our spiritual journey as we become conformed to the image of God and come to “know” Christ in us, the hope of glory (1 Cor 1:27).
Lord knows I have argued your point of view many times in the past, just like I used to argue that Eve was physically seduced by Satan in the garden. But it’s not about the physical realm, it’s about the spiritual realm, the unseen things that are happening in our lives now. The past is gone. It was temporal anyway and it doesn’t exist anymore. You cannot get in your car and go there. The only way it exists is if you bring it into the present through thoughts and words. Only the present exists.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Paul knew the story of the beguiling of Eve was allegorical to show us the subtlety of how we are seduced by the thoughts of our carnal minds (satan), whether placed there by another man or generated on our own.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
So in that sense we are Eve, just like we are Noah when we plant our own vineyard and consume the wine from it. And when we get drunk on that wine, Canaan (lowlands of religion and carnal thinking) and Babylon (church systems) is sure to follow. As I shared in the article, I saw the profaning of myself and what I had done… in the story of what happened in Gen 9.
To that end, I no longer read or study the scriptures to determine what to believe, or to establish teachable doctrine, or to learn how to conduct my life. Over the course of my life, I changed what I “believed” happened in the garden no less than three times, but none of those changes affected the Love in my heart. In fact they hardened my heart.
I know exactly what the Gamaliel (doctor of the law) trained Hebrew scholar, Paul, meant when he said concerning his former zealous church life:
Php 3:6 … Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
My religious life’s experience, as a Pharisee of Pharisees, followed by His awakening (revelation) and being struck down (not from scholarship and Bible study), taught me what this means. No man taught it to me, nor could any man have done so. And the experience was so profound it completely changed my nature and how I see things and other people.
However, I cannot give another person my experience. I can only tell them about it (give them my testimony) and they may believe what I say is true or not believe it. But until they have had a similar experience, they can never “know” it. Knowing and believing are not the same. Likewise, “believing” the scriptures and “knowing” them are also not the same. So a person can strengthen his or her beliefs all he or she wants… but they are no substitute for knowing.
Love ya brother.
Lance
Lance, you are the man! This article is the best. I am so glad that you have the spiritual guts to ignore those, like Greg, who propose that scripture is to be ” simplistic,” but then go into great detail PROVING their point. ( I have been there, done that. But, I am done with it, now ) And if one like yourself says to simply look within for God’s speaking, they revolt, even if veiled, for it is heard in what they write. They simply want to argue, and miss the fact that you are always saying over and over, that WE ARE those that we read about. The scripture is symbolic. It is about us, as we move through the stages of life within. It is about the kingdom of God which is within and without observation……I must say, ” hearing God’s voice ” is way better than reading His words.
( And that is not to say the scripture isn’t important, but the scripture is to bring us ” higher.”
I had a hassle ( and separation ) with a group that I got attached to about six months ago, that was full of truth and revelation, at least on the surface. ( Typically, a group that actually came out of WWCG .) But, they are very much “leader and elder ” oriented, somewhat condemning, and demand that you adhere to each and every doctrine that they preach. (including Christ was created by God, non violence and non participation in the military, and total non participation in any so called “holiday ” or birthday, and non trinitarian beliefs). They have been having a big disfellowshipping with a guy because he had the nerve to express essentially what you say in this article.
While observing their dealing with this situation, I realized that what he was trying to say ( 1John 2:27 ) was correct, and that they all ( the “elders ” ) were being essentially childish AND PROTECTIVE, in their actions, and in my estimation making a huge deal out of something that wasn’t worth the effort, to the length that they were going. And everyone was ” offended ” and accusing everyone of accusing them, etc, etc. I told them what I thought, and I was next on their list. Only one problem there….I could care less about ” their kingdom,” or if disfellowshipped. (Of course, they have instilled in their follower’s minds that they will be ” judged in the Lake of Fire ” if they sever themselves from ” their advanced ” status as ” THE ELECT. ”
All that to say that what you say here was a third witness for me at a perfect time. It was excellent. Thank you !
Really do not have many words to say, only what’s given, this was “if it does not feel right in your Spirit, it’s wrong”. Who are you?
Loved all the teaching learned, think Our Father wants it both ways, Carnal…than Spiritual..so we will have true discernment, be real instead of religious.
This is universalism. Christ is not in every one who comes into the world. This light is referring to the moral conscience. God put this light within everyone. To say that Jesus Christ dwells within all is wrong.